FRANCE - 2

In normal circumstances, I wouldn’t bother taking the Independent’s advice, but their Paris correspondent John Lichfield has always struck me as exceptionally even-handed. His brief guide to the troubles is well worth reading. My own guess is that Sarkozy was right to crack down on crime. Whether he was prepared for the backlash is another matter:

Is this France's intifada? Do the riots have wider significance for the West?

Talk of an intifada is absurdly misleading. Firstly, the rioters are far from being all Muslim (although more than half are from Islamic backgrounds). Second, they have no sense of political or religious identity and no political demands. Their allegiance is to their quartier and their gang. Their main demand, so far as can be established, is to be left alone by police and the Interior Minister, Nicolas Sark-ozy, to continue with their life of low-level violence and drugs trading. The wider significance is therefore not politico-religious but a warning of what happens if problems of deprivation and violence are allowed to fester.

Who are the rioters? How valid are their grievances?

Judging by the youths who have been arrested, and by comments by social workers and "big brothers" - older, more responsible young people - the rioters are almost exclusively kids involved in permanent gang violence, theft and drug dealing.

They are mostly aged 17-22 with some as young as 10. Depending on the district, maybe half of the rioters may be second or third generation. French-born young people of Arab descent. Maybe 30 or 40 per cent are black, often from families which have migrated to France more recently, legally or illegally. The remainder are local French youngsters or from eastern or southern European immigrant families. Their immediate grievance is a threat by M. Sarkozy to "clean out" the suburban gangs as "scum". Many residents, of all races, in the banlieues would agree with M. Sarkozy's sentiments, but not his inflammatory language.

Figaro has a brief interview with some of the youths on the streets. The conversation is about urban alienation, not religion:

Ces émeutiers ne se projettent dans aucune revendication sociale ou politique. "A notre niveau, c'est la merde», lâche Morad, qui avoue toutefois rêver "d'un petit pavillon, d'une femme et d'enfants... au bled".

[Loose trans: "These rioters put forward no social or political demands. "Down where we are, life is shit," says Morad, who nevertheless admits he dreams of "a little house, a wife and kids... in a village.**] "** Commenter U2 of No Pasaran says this should translate as "back in Algeria".

Go here for one last update.

Comments

[Karridine]

They only want the police to leave them alone... and this IS a 'reasonable' demand.

Until we think a bit deeper, and realize that Police are an aspect of the GOVERNMENT. "Leave government outside! Give us our 'petty' crime, our self-abusive drugs, our 'victimless' prostitution and whoring! Keep reality-cops away! Let us rot in our self-victimization!"

Well, maybe, but then again...

[K_G]

Amir Taheri appears to contradict Lichfield's premise that, "Second, they have no sense of political or religious identity and no political demands."

A few quotes from Amir Taheri:

"Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs."

"The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling alcohol and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local administration."

""All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the local "emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim Brotherhood . . ."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nypost/20051104/cm_nypost/whyparisisburning

[embutler]

I predict ,the muslims will be allowed to keep the peace in their own neighborhoods independent of the government and it will probably work...of course the area will have to grown with increasing population..etc

[U*2]

"au bled" would be more appropriately translated as "back in Algeria". When the French youth say "Quel bled!" it can usually be translated as "What a hicktown!" or "What a dump!" or the like" ; when they say they want to do something "au bled" it means "back home" or wherever their parents came from. "Bled" literally means "countryside" or "old country" in dialectal Algerian. If a young French says he wants a house - and wife - and kids "au bled" it means he only dreams of leaving France and going back to his "roots".

[U*2]

"au bled" would be more appropriately translated as "back in Algeria". When the French youth say "Quel bled!" it can usually be translated as "What a hicktown!" or "What a dump!" or the like ; when they say they want to do something "au bled" it means "back home" or wherever their parents came from. "Bled" literally means "countryside" or "old country" in dialectal Algerian. If a young French says he wants a house - and wife - and kids "au bled" it means he only dreams of leaving France and going back to his "roots".

[Leland]

While I accept that most riots are caused by anarchist wanting to be left alone to do whatever feels good to them; I have a hard time believing that anarchy alone is causing this to spread. I simply have not seen a critical mass of anarchist, even when they plan on forming in large groups, capable of this magnitude of destruction over this length of time. At the very least, I'm sure opportunist, both left and right, Christian and Muslim, are looking at how this will benefit their agenda.

[tim maguire]

While I certainly hope you're right, CD, it's hard to accept your take on events when I read something like this:

"PARIS (AP) - Rioting by French youths spread to 300 towns overnight and a man hurt in the violence died of his wounds, the first fatality in 11 days of unrest that has shocked the country, police said Monday.

As urban unrest spread to neighboring Belgium and possibly Germany, the French government faced growing criticism for its inability to stop the violence, despite massive police deployment and continued calls for calm."

(source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051107/D8DNLIF06.html)

Hundreds of towns, multiple countries--hooligans who just want to be left alone? Sorry, maybe a week ago.

[K_G]

" predict ,the muslims will be allowed to keep the peace in their own neighborhoods independent of the government"

I agree up to that point.

There have already been statements issued by those associated with the French government that strongly hint they will capitulate to these demands.

And they will thereby take the first solid step towards a new Palistine.

Within their own borders.

[JohnR]

I'm not sure the fact that the rioters have "no social or political demands" is all that interesting; what, after all, were Mohammed Atta's "demands" on 9/11?

I'm reminded of the scene in "Independence Day" when the US president asks one of the earth-destroying aliens, "What do you want us to do?" and the alien simply responds, "Die."

JR

[Alec]

"These rioters put forward no social or political demands." Nonsense. They are demanding sovereignty: freedom from French law! They are demanding a separate state! "Intifada" is exactly the right term.

[tcheni]

First, I must insist, with John Lichfield : "the rioters are far from being all muslims", believe me, that is true. I live in Paris since 1995, and before I used to live in the suburbs, Val de Marne or "neuf-quatre", a place where some cars may be burning now. The rioters aren't religious. They are often very proud of their cultural backgrounds, but they're not religious. They drink alcohol, they are sometimes violent (they even burn cars, see) and they surely don't pray five times a day. So the "intifada" thing is pretty ridiculous, as long as you consider intifada a revolt on religious purpose. The only things in common between french riots and the intifada are the social misery (but it should be counterbalanced : believe me, you'd rather be an french-arab in La Courneuve than a Palestinian in Gaza) and the arab background of many rioters (but not all of them), but an arab backgroung shouldn't be consider as a reason to riot.
Second, on the "organization" thing : each 31st december, and each 14th of July in France, there are approx 5.000 cars burned everywhere in France. It's not organized. It's just part of a strange "tradition". Same thing now. There are many "cités" with dam good reasons to be bothered at, and as one see another on the TV news, it is spreading across all the territory.
Third, and most important thing : the "And they will thereby take the first solid step towards a new Palistine within their own borders" thing. It is non-sense. Palestine is not a muslim state as you seem to believe (Iran is, Palestine is not), but the question is elsewhere : France is a laic country, with strong laic legislation, maybe the strongest in the world. You will never see any religious group do their laws in France. And I must add that reading daily many newspapers, French, american and british newspapers, I have never read any french muslim who wants his independence. In the case of the actual riots, it is even the exact contrary : they want to be consider as fully french citizen.

Last thing : Paris is not burning. I live here. I cross it every day, north-south, east-west, and I haven't see anything.

[Leland]

"Last thing : Paris is not burning. I live here. I cross it every day, north-south, east-west, and I haven't see anything. "

Oh... Ok... well back to my fiddle then. Why me worry if you not worry.