THE COUNTRY THEY ALL LOVE TO HATE

Andrew Sullivan and David Frum have both been pondering that old topic, anti-Americanism. Sullivan witnessed some of the problems at first hand:

My trip in London was mainly filled with social engagements with British Tories: probably the most sympathetic sub-group America has in Europe (with the exception of the Poles). They all seem terribly discouraged by the trends in the U.S. and completely befuddled by the conduct of the war. Many Europeans were never going to give the U.S.the benefit of the doubt. But we seem to have lost the few who would.

Good to see Frum conceding that the problem isn't entirely down to malicious European elites ("Americans understand that they are not communicating well.") I really wish I could feel more confident about America getting to grips with this. Sadly, my impression is that too many US conservative commentators, in the mainstream and blogosphere alike, are locked into that tiresome and deeply parochial "Why don't they love us?" routine. Self-pity alternates with bursts of righteous anger and the irritating assumption that, in all known fields of human endeavour, the American model is the only one that works. Not forgetting that oh-so reassuring belief that, yawn, Europe will be going down the tubes in 30 years' time anyway, so why bother listening?

I'm about as pro-US as they come, but I have to say I'm beginning to run out of patience - and hope.

PS: As for the idea that MTV and Britney will do the job instead, I refer you to Martha Bayles's article on the lost art of cultural diplomacy.

UPDATE: A quick response to some of the comments below. The one conservative commentator who does seem worried about America's dismal PR is Irwin Stelzer. David Brooks is another, I guess. I wish I could think of lots more names, but I really can't. In my experience, the standard response from US conservatives (and some liberals) is that, throughout history, the Number One Nation always attracts hostility. Well, yes, but that's no reason to help your enemies by failing to explain basic decisions. Refusing to sign up to Kyoto is the classic example: the right decision, as far as I can see, but incredibly mishandled by the Bush team. Yes, much of the Euro-media is hopelessly biased, and yes, a fair proportion of the chattering classes is never going to be won over, but that's no reason to be defeatist.

One obvious remedy: start appointing ambassadors on the basis of their communication skills rather than their fund-raising achievements. Lots of us in the UK wonder what that big building in Grosvenor Square is supposed to be for. Better still: start taking this entire problem seriously. Oh, and one more thing: stop talking as if Americans are more virtuous than Europeans. It's about as true as the oft-heard claim that Europeans are smarter than Americans.

Comments

[Jake]

So what would you have us do?

You must admit that even during the Clinton Administration we had to sit through endless attacks describing our international crimes in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.

I'm preparing for my tenth B school anniversary at LBS this summer. All invites to the the event include little diggs from my British friends about how much fun it will be have an American to kick around for the weekend. Frankly, I might just not go. The thought of it all just seems so unpleasant.

If you of all people have given up on dialogue, I'm not sure you can expect us to be the ones who somehow heal the transatlantic rift. It takes two. We certainly can start by marginalizing our Claire Berlinski's, but she hardly compares to the daily drumbeat from the BBC World Service or any and all of the German media.

[Michael]

I'll echo Jake's question: What would you have us do?

If there are US commentators who express themselves in the way you favor, who are they, and where specifically have they done so?

And if you've stated your ideas on the subject, where can I read them?

This isn't antagonism. I'm genuinely interested.

[MikeK]

It will only get worse after we win the World Cup this summer:)

[Mike Doughty]

Who exactly are the conservative commentators that are "locked into" the "Why don't they love us?" routine? Sounds more like the liberals to me, although they'd have the answers, like they always do. Frankly, and with all due respect, the vast majority of "conservative" Americans care very little what Europeans think about the US. I'm sure this is extremely irritating to Europeans of all political stripes, but it's the simple truth. It's kind of like an ex-wife; at first the criticisms sting, but after awhile you just don't care. European opinion is like that for a great many Americans----simply irrelevant.

[Nick Mallory]

America is criticised because the vast majority of european commentators are simply on the other side.

The smug euro scribblers want to see America defeated in Iraq, Israel vanquished, capitalism fail and the great satan humbled. They see George Bush as the real terrorist and Islamic terrorism as their ally, rather than a threat. The fact that the USA, Israel and capitalism are strong, and their own ideology of state socialism so discredited, simply fills them with impotent rage which they vent in their columns.

No amount of flowery rhetoric is going to change their minds. For them, America is the enemy, and to think that better 'diplomacy' from right wing commentators would change their outlook is a vain hope - unless one also believes that Iran can be pursuaded to abandon its nuclear ambitions and Bin Laden would happily surrender if only GWB would invite him round for tea. These people have never forgiven the USA for winning the cold war, don't think the war on terror exists and blame Bush for the extinction of the dinosaurs.

It's pointless to argue that America is disliked by these people because it's somehow 'not getting its message across'. It's disliked because european media elites utterly reject the pursuit of economic freedom at home and political freedom abroad. They are so full of self loathing that they'd rather surrender to the real enemies of western civilisation than support its greatest pillar.

European leftists rarely have their assumptions challenged. No anti war loon is given a rough ride on the Today programme any more than the holy mantra of more public spending to solve every social problem is ever challenged. The patience and politeness of visiting Americans subjected to abuse for daring to be citizens of the one nation on earth serious about defending western liberal democracy is remarkable. It is their leftist opponents who endlessly reveal themselves as boorish and ill informed.

It's not for Americans to moderate their point of view. It's up to Europeans to wake up to reality.

[Michael]

My apologies to the other commenters, but if Clive Davis is "beginning to run out of patience - and hope," then it's likely that we need to fix something.

[Derek Scruggs]

Most of these comments are ironically brilliant - they do exactly what you describe. Alternately whining about why the EU hates us and huffily declaring that we don't give a damn about them anyway.

I don't remember being hated for what we did in Bosnia, Kosovo etc. Perhaps it's because we, um, did it with ALLIES? You know, NATO? Not to say it wasn't controversial - in China and Russia.

Of course, that didn't stop Republicans from (gasp!) criticizing a wartime president. Their arguments were that 1) we shouldn't intervene because it's not our problem (in other words, no oil was at stake, and of course nation-building is bad) and 2) you can't win with airpwer alone, you have to send in ground troops.

They were wrong about both and we can only pray that Iraq in 5 years is half as good as the Slavic states after the same amount of time. The more likely scenario is Somalia.

[Coisty]

Reading the replies it is not hard to see why Clive Davis is pessimistic.

It amazes me that so many Americans think they deserve respect for what they did in the Balkans. They helped create a Muslim state called Bosnia and contributed to the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo by Bin Laden's old friends the KLA. The 'genocide' didn't happen and wasn't going to happen but the post war reports showing that don't matter to Americans because they've moved on and besides they'd rather go around claiming they saved the day and demanding everyone else love them for it than analyse what happened.

It's almost comical listening to Americans going on about freedom (whatever that means), democracy (which means theocracy in Muslim countries) and free market capitalism. This is a particulary bad week for Americans to claim they are champions of the free market, what with the hysteria from the president on down on gas prices and the disgraceful undermining of the free trade agreement with Canada over softwood lumber.

Smug European (and Canadian) anti-Americanism used to annoy me but these days I'm a bit more tolerant of it because of the arrogance and ignorance of many US 'conservatives'. I used to defend the U.S. but my heart's not in it anymore, especially now that they are gloating about Europe's problems.

BTW Mexicans are as much a threat to the U.S. as Muslims are to Europe but trying to tell Americans that is like trying to warn them about invading Iraq: They just don't want to listen to foreigners; they want us to obey without protest and if we do raise objections we're anti-American and, I guess, anti-freedom.

[Subbacultcha]

Coisty, really, no genocide? So, those mass graves were what? A cost cutting move?

[Dennis Castle]

Nick Mallory's comments above are brilliant, and I plan on repeating them to others and pretend they are my own. I would take Frank Lee's opinion a few steps further and end our participation in NATO, remove troops from everywhere in Europe, Japan and South Korea and then declare victory at the UN and end our involvement there (along with all peace-keeping operations). We'll then have enough troops to win the War on Terror and defend our own border (the May 1st pro-illegal immigration demonstrations will create the opposite reaction their fomenters are counting on). It is Mr. Davis' mission to foster understanding from "across the pond", and I respect that, but (like the European passenger in the new "United 93" movie insisting everybody meekly acquiesce to the terrorists) they are nothing like us. It is interesting watching their withering nihilism turn their version of Western Civilization into a puff of smoke, but we should hardly use their standards as a comparison. Don't want their love, or need it.

[Frank Lee]

Derek Scruggs does not remember America's being hated over Kosovo. I direct him to the Spring 2002 issue of "Granta," in which Harold Pinter fulminates against George Bush, of all people, over the Kosovo campaign (which took place during Bill Clinton's presidency). There was no vocal consensus that took shape among the European elites in response to Pinter's accusations and those of Tzvetan Todorov and others. Indeed, Pinter was subsequently awarded the Nobel Prize in large part owing to this and other illogical rants.

My broader point was that the Kosovo campaign was vital for some (the Kosovo Albanians), important for others (the EU countries that would have received the bulk of the refugees), but of little relevance to America's interests. Yet the costs, both financial and political, were borne almost fully by the United States. For that reason, when I see the Europeans and the Americans drifting apart, I am not deeply alarmed. It may work to our advantage ultimately, especially if the Netherlands or France descend into civil war and the post-Christian citizens of those states expect the United States to intervene on their behalf against the Muslim extremists. The more alienated we are from the Europeans at that point, the easier it will be to resist their pleas.

One last point: the war in Afganistan has the unanimous support of our NATO allies, but it still contributes to anti-Americanism among European elites.

[Coisty]

"Coisty, really, no genocide? So, those mass graves were what?"

People die in real wars. They are not high-tech video games. Even during a 'cakewalk' lots of people die. Were there massacres of civilians? Yes. But it wasn't genocide unless the definition of genocide has been radically altered and watered down.

In the case of Kosovo we now know for sure that most killing occurred after NATO started bombing. We also know that much of the evidence of massacres was faked by the Kosovars. Peter Worthington (David frum's father-in-law, I believe) has been writing about the anti-Serb propaganda for over a decade

http://www.balkanpeace.org/hed/archive/apr01/hed2973.shtml

[Subbacultcha]

Coisty,

Thank you, I had no idea that people died in a war.
I also appreciate the link to the Serbian Information Ministry. Turns out that the Serb's are just misunderstood, thousand year history of being scumbags notwhithstanding. I'd love to know who pays David Frum's father-in-law's salary.

So when is genocide actually genocide? Is it just a question of scale? Does Darfur qualify?

[Clive]

I've added a brief update on a few points mentioned in the comments.
Can we please leave the debate over Kosovo to another day? Thanks.

[Subbacultcha]

Sorry Clive, got carried away.

[nandrews3]

It's depressing, though not surprising, to see so many commenters here clinging to their bitterness, anger, and self-righteousness. Yeah, I'm sure the smug anti-American commentary in Europe gets old. But step back and look at yourselves! You've become the mirror image of the object of your scorn.

Are you so certain of the conceptual brilliance of our war in Iraq that you can really afford to dismiss all criticism? Are you really eager to get on with a global War on Terror without NATO, even? This isn't strategic thinking, it's venting. Placing our security interests in your hands would be like leaving a child with an abusive parent.

So "they are nothing like us," huh? Who do you mean by "us"? You're not speaking for Americans. You're speaking for a small segment of people isolated by their own resentments.

[Coisty]

(Since Clive Davis doesn't want to discuss Kosovo I'll just briefly reply to Subbacultcha then leave it at that.)

Subbacultcha: "I also appreciate the link to the Serbian Information Ministry. Turns out that the Serb's are just misunderstood, thousand year history of being scumbags notwhithstanding. I'd love to know who pays David Frum's father-in-law's salary."

Uh...Peter Worthington's salary is paid by the newspaper (Toronto Sun) he writes for!!!! He is one of Canada's most famous conservative columnists. I notice you couldn't refute what he and virtually everyone who has researched the Racak "Massacre' has said.

Your bigotry towards an entire nation has also been noted though the U.S. airmen rescued by Serbs during WW2 (when most of the region's Muslims were on Hitler's side) would disagree with you about them being 'scumbags'. You've already painted one European nation with a broad brush, much like the Americans Clive is (rightly) complaining about.

[Subbacultcha]

argh...must...respect...Clive's...wishes...must...not...respond......

[Quinn Bishop]

Nick Mallory has the insight of a gnat on LSD.

[Coisty]

The Stelzer article Clive links to in the update section is very good. It is not just in Germany, Italy, and the UK that the ambassadors are useless, it is the same in Canada - the U.S.'s largest trading partner. The ambassador here is a former fundraiser for George W Bush who admitted when he got the job that he knew next to nothing about Canada! So far he has merelt reinforced Canadian prejudices of Americans.

I find such appointments to be a sign that the U.S. government does not respect the countries receiving such people. This is especially the case when the ambassador does not even speak the country's language. If it were Nepal or some or obscure country with a language spoken by few it would be understandable but Germany? Can you imagine Germany having an ambassador to the U.S. who didn't speak English? Nor can I.

[John Tabin]

Sorry, but caring about what Europe thinks of us just isn't in America's DNA. Get used to it.

[Frank Lee]

Clive, I was surprised by your scolding of the people commenting on your blog. "Stop talking as if Americans are more virtuous than Europeans," you wrote. "It's about as true as the oft-heard claim that Europeans are smarter than Americans." Does it not occur to you that the vast majority of Europeans make the same claim for their virtue, while few Americans assert that their countrymen are intellectually superior? The Europeans are outscoring the Americans two to one in the obnoxious claims department, in other words. And whereas the majority of the journalistic, academic, and artistic elites in America would scoff at the idea of America's actions being virtuous, the European elites would accept as a given all claims for Europe's superiority in this area. The alarming thing to me as an American is the Europeans' imperviousness to their own faults and to the facts. For example, the ubiquitous claims that Europeans are smarter than Americans comes at a time when Americans have dominated the Nobel Prizes for decades, when American scientists far out-perform their counterparts in Europe (in number of articles published and patents acquired), and when third-party assessments of the best universities in the world designate 17 American universities among the top 20. If there were similarly objective markers of virtue, then I have to assume that the Europeans would ignore those facts as well and continue to push the consensus about a virtuous Europe. In other words, where are the European elites who take an automatic stance of incredulity toward their own culture's claims of superiority?

[Jake]

Re the update...

Conservatives concerned about America's reputation in Europe:

Robert Kagan
William Buckley
George Schultz
Colin Powell

Don't remember Admiral Crowe being given any respect by London elites.

Virtue point well taken.

Kyoto point, GMAB.

[Edward]

Coisty is making a misleading comparison between a German ambassador in Washington who speaks English and an American ambassador in Berlin who does not speak German. The German ambassador would speak English because English is the language of diplomacy, science, commerce, and popular culture throughout most of Europe (and, indeed, the world), but German is none of those things in North America (or even, indeed, in Europe).

On a related note, I used to work in Saudi Arabia, where I can assure you there are French diplomats who speak neither Arabic nor English. They expect the Saudis to communicate with them in French. Furthermore, it is inaccurate to say that the host country is always insulted by having a political appointee as U.S. ambassador. In Saudi Arabia, at least, the government did not want a Middle East expert appointed to Riyadh. Instead, the Saudis wanted someone who had the ear of the president, preferably a personal friend or big-money doner. I likewise doubt that the Canadians really want Bush to appoint an ambassador who understands the minutiae of Canadian politics and culture and who therefore will be able to see right through the Canadian tendency toward petulance, which has managed to inflate a legitimate grievance on lumber trade into a relationship-souring crisis.

[Johnny Broomhandle]

Well, shall we sit around and pine for the bygone days, when only the elites -- the intelligent, educated, or merely rich -- hated the US, and when only disreputable terrorists claimed that the US engaged in killing and torturing Moslems, and attacking Islamic countries for oil?

If we will do nothing but speak longingly of the past, I would daydream of the decades before Reagan, before the Republican Party became the party of overspending and ever-increasing deficits, and took over K street and drugs and prostitutes and bribes for Republican legislators only -- they hope and wish -- I bet that Democratic legisalators still sneak some of the drugs, prostitutes, and cash away from the Republican-controlled lobbyists :))

Or even daydream of the days when we wanted to protect our buddy Saddam from criticism for genocide, when Reagan and Bush Sr twisted arms to keep any legislators or State ppl from making waves about Saddam's killings of the Kurds -- back when they understood that a strongman in Iraq was much better than dissolving anarchy.

But, the future will come, daydream how we may.